Growing Pains

all things new

With all the new life and hope around us, it comes with a jolt to be reminded that we are still part of an overwhelmingly “maintenance Church”. By this I mean a model of pastoral practice that has worked for the Church for centuries, in Western countries with majority Christian cultures. So much of what we are still doing in our parishes operates out of this old model. In majority Christian cultures, the faith was handed on in families, schools and communities often by a kind of cultural osmosis. In such contexts, parishes did not need to provide much catechesis. A short sacramental programme sufficed to prepare children to receive First Communion or Confirmation. And they continued practising, as members of a cultural, or even tribal, “club”.

But the rules have changed. They changed decades ago, but we have been slow to read the signs of the times and to change how we do things. Parishes that continue to operate as they have always done will surely die: their parishioners have not been prepared to weather the harsher, post-modern climate, their inner connection to Christ and his Church is weak, and so what is there to keep them? They gradually drift away.

In Richmond, we know that changing our model is a necessity. We know that “self-referentiality” is a sickness, and that the only cure is to turn out from ourselves. Evangelisation is not about us, so it is the most wonderful healing for the Church.

This new model is very joyful. It breaks through questions of structures, institutional concerns and committees… It is concerned only with building a network of disciples and communicating Jesus. There is so much structural baggage that can be shed.


The riverside in Twickenham

And yet… in order to move a parish gradually and sustainably towards a discipleship culture, there is a period of transition. You find yourself with one foot in the new world of evangelisation, and yet one foot still needed in the old world. While you build a culture of discipleship, the programmes of sacramental preparation still need to be maintained, despite your awareness they are not fit for purpose. Eventually I hope we can move away from programmes altogether. (And this is from someone who has written one!) We would like to work towards a youth ministry that is weekly and ongoing, and in which a young person simply asks for Confirmation when they are ready. But, in the interim, we have to prop up the “maintenance Church”, keep it going, and make it as evangelistic as possible.

With one foot in both “worlds”, we experience what Fr James Mallon calls, the “house of pain” (read more in chapter 3 of Divine Renovation). The structures are still in place that give the “consumers” a foothold and a loud voice. When we are providing these programmes, I feel that we are still in “their world”, following the rules that worked in the 1950s, but that no longer work in a post-Christian society – that have not worked over the past several decades. Yet, there are those who want to keep to these rules because it is what they have always known and it suits them. Do they know or care that the Church is dying? Like the priest that Fr Mallon mentions in his book, many priests find themselves presidents of middle-class social clubs. How did the Church become so sick that this is her reality? And why, oh why, do Catholics cling to this reality with all their strength?

My dream is of a parish with such a strong and joyful culture of discipleship that consumerism is swallowed up (ahem, consumed, if you will), and becomes an experience of the past. I mentioned in my last post a church plant that my evangelical Christian cousin is involved with. Part of my heart longs for such a venture, straightforward evangelisation which is, on the whole, comparable to the missio ad gentes. But new evangelisation is much tougher in my opinion, because it is the re-evangelisation of the baptised: “Many Europeans today think they know what Christianity is, yet they do not really know it at all” (Pope St John Paul II, Ecclesia in Europa, 47). As we all know, this is hard work. It is hard, and many don’t dare even to begin.


Some of our wonderful parishioners

We are paying for the mistakes of those who have baptised but who have not made disciples. Yes, they too were just following the rules. But still…where were the shepherds keeping watch, sounding the alarm when change was needed, even if it meant disturbing the peace?

As we move determinedly forward, realising, as we put one foot in front of the other, just what is needed to change the culture, I’m reminded of any big upheaval that we might undertake in life to make necessary changes. Think of a hoarder who has filled his house with junk over the years. One day he realises he cannot go on like this and takes steps to clean up. The process is difficult and painful and he has to deal with a lot of emotional junk. But he knows he has to make the change and he pushes ahead. Or a mum who has been over-indulgent with her children and then realises one day how badly behaved they are. She realises she has to make changes to how she is raising them, or it will be too late. There is backlash and hysteria, and she has to deal with a lot of her own fears, but she knows she has to push ahead to put things right.

Friends, we can’t keep doing business as usual. If we do, we’ll simply go out of business. Push through the pain – it’s the only way.

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9 Responses

  1. Marguerite says:

    I’ve been following your blog for a few months now and am very grateful to you for articulating so well where we’re at and the feel and nature of the work that needs to be done in order to move forward. May God’s peace, courage, wisdom and joy with us!

  2. Hannah,

    I have helped lead a parish into the sort of scenario that you describe above. I have to say though that it really took the priest to hold the liberals and conservatives at arms length, and not capitulate or be bullied, so that the ones that were interested in creating a genuine Catholic Community where allowed to develop things.

    Have you taken certain things into account?

    1. Priests are normally rotated in a six yearly basis. Has your priest asked for a long term appointment? If not then all that you set up can be ruined within a matter of weeks by a priest who does not share your vision. This happens a lot. How about having the church designated a Center for the New Evangelisation (as we are trying to do here). We are trying to link in with the School of the Annunciation. This will give some long term stability, which will not be present if your priest is on the standard rotation list. Our Center vision is being based around this site…

    2. We threw the kitchen sink at the work. We didn’t scrimp on cash or effort. We did absolutely everything to the best of our ability and trusted in God’s providence. We especially trusted in God’s providence to pay the bills. In some cases this meant that we needed Him to pay BIG bills for the transport of people from all over the country. I know you know this, but having a core team that literally gives all they have got is absolutely essential. God wants everything!

    3. Keep it Catholic! We didn’t capitulate to modernist interpretations of Vatican II. The more we put authentic Catholicism in the faces of the local denominations, the more they were interested and kept coming back and asking questions. No weak watered down Ecumenism was ever used, it was all or nothing, and the results were amazing. We didn’t back down once and never once hid our Catholic faith. In the end we literally packed out an event with members of other Churches from literally all over the county.

    4. I know that you are praying, but if you want BIG results then you are going to have to put in BIG prayer intercession (far more than most people imagine). In our case we had an extremely long 5 page prayer said daily. Only when (in true Jackie Pullinger style) we could we no longer say the prayer anymore (because we were spiritually exhausted) did God respond. It took two years, but when the prayer was answered the results were significant. It was if the usual oppression was lifted from the whole of the Church. Every event we put on had the palpable presence of the Holy Spirit. Having said that we are no charismatics, we kept it strictly Catholic (though I did feel that the Jackie Pullinger reference was relevant). The Holy Spirit doesn’t need charismatics on hand for Him to get to get to work. He just needs people who believe that the prayer will be answered.

    5. Keep the prayer going when the prayer has worked (how ever hard that will be).

    6. In the ideal world it would be great if everyone could be involved in the organisation, but it doesn’t work like that. Only surround yourself with people who have the same vision. Anyone who does not have your vision will be a weak link and cause problems. You need a very close knit and prayerful team. We had a core team of 4 people, but we had some good supporters.

    7. Be aware that all individual spiritual movements in history have come to an end, so make the most of it whilst you have it.

    8. Get the people who are on board down the pub every week. This will help build strong bonds and you will end up with more helpers and supporters.

    9. Expect great results, and unexpected results. The Latin Mass was the biggest surprise, and the thing that continues to this day and is most appreciated. I never saw that coming. We also brought back traditions like the Crowning of Mary to the local area, and far more people started to learn about their faith. In the end two other churches wanted to learn from what we had done, and asked for help, so the work spread outward in an area that was pretty much spiritually dead.

    10. Prayer and effort were the key.

    Hope that helps,

    • Transformed in Christ says:

      It is great to hear about this – wow! What kind of fruit have you seen? Has your parish grown in numbers? How do you recognise a culture of discipleship? What conversions have there been? Would be great to hear more about the fruits.

      • There have been numerous programs that have failed over the past 60 years (well all of them really), so we didn’t go for a program style approach to the faith. We cannot build the faith through programs and theories proposed in books or courses (even reasonably good ones such as Forming Intentional Disciples which I know that some are fond of, but these are always fads and soon fade away). Even Proclaim 15 has come to an abrupt halt (for whatever reason). Although a formulaic approach may work on a small scale they always peter out once the leadership either changes, gets bored, or moves on, or begins to be at variance with the Church. In Lincolnshire, as with the now highly successful Catholic Churches of the Southern and South-Western States of America (which are now coming back to life), we rejected absolutely everything that has failed since Vatican II, i.e. a formulaic approach to building the faith. We have rejected all protestantised approaches to building to the faith, and according to a prominent charismatic we have been more successful than anything CCR have ever managed to achieve in a parish (now two parishes). We strive to create authentic devout Catholics, because Catholics who are devoutly practicing ARE DISCIPLES. It is not a fad, or a passing phase, but it equates to a hermaneutic of continuity with the Church which leads back 2000 years. Programs and a formulaic approach to the faith amount to building your house on sand. However, creating good old fashioned devoutly practicing Catholics (i.e. real disciples) equates to building your house on a 2000 year old rock which cannot be moved. It is very telling that your comments expose the fact that you almost seem to imply that being an authentic devout Roman Catholic does not equate to discipleship. How can this be?

        The trend in looking towards protestant, non-conformist, and free church approaches to the faith have lead to failure. This is because their churches are built on sand. How do we know this? We’ll we can tell through the fact that there have been over 40,000 denominations formed since the reformation. In all 40,000 cases a person has been at odds with his pastor and gone “I disagree with you and I am starting a new church”. All denominational Church plants only serve for one thing, and one thing only. That is to help Satan move people away from the Blessed Sacrament.

        We strive to create authentic devout Roman Catholics who really do pass on the authentic Roman Catholic Faith, from generation to generation. We do not create Catholics, formed in half truths, who will only transmit half truths from generation to generation through theories and courses built on sand. We have had 60 years of failure. It is time to move on.

        Many holy & orthodox practicing Catholic priests pray to God for an authentic witness of a devout Roman Catholic practicing family in their church (see video below). There is a reason for this. It is because success breeds success. Satan has less chance of destroying devoutly practicing Roman Catholic individuals and families.

        • Transformed in Christ says:

          Hi there, I just asked about the fruits you have seen. Catholics who are on fire with their faith (whether you call that a “devoutly practising Catholic” or a “disciple”) are normally contagious, and so many conversions are seen. It is good to give glory to God and share the wonderful things that we have seen in people’s lives, but you were telling me more about what doesn’t work, rather than the wonderful things you have seen God do!

          • You (quite rightly) wish your Church community to be on fire. You want a vibrant community, like some of the church plants that you have mentioned. There is nothing wrong with this and it should be encouraged. However, in your community who is most on fire with the Holy Spirit? Is it the person who has just come to faith, with a fresh blossoming love for God, or is it the ageing lady who is ill, struggles to get to church, regularly goes to confession, who can’t feel God’s presence, but receives Holy Communion in a state of grace with no un-confessed past or recent mortal sin, (and still goes week in and week out). I know that you know that the kerygma stage leads to the purgative, illumative, and unitive stage of spiritual development. It is of course the aging lady who is really on fire with the Holy Spirit, despite the fact she may not be able to feel God’s presence. She is the one who has been through the tribulation often associated with confession. She is the one who has gone through the tribulations of becoming dead to sin. She is the one who has had to experience the ascetic spiritual life to get to the place where she is at. I am sure you know that St. John of the Cross also points to the fact that those who have gone through the Awakening, and are ‘on fire’, are also the ones who are the most spiritually immature, and prone to sin and must be encouraged to move forward. So let us not confuse an ‘on fire’ young spiritual community with a correct understanding of what it means to be Catholic. It is the old Lady who has accrued the Gifts of the Holy Spirit (whether she realises it or not). and it is the old lady who is ‘on fire’ with the Holy Spirit, because saints are not created in a vacuum, and neither do retain the fresh glow of faith. There is ascetism and a hard prayer life to go through to become a saint.

            To get to the whole point of this, I have to point into the fact that the ‘new movements’ always fall into the same trap as those non-conformist and free Churches. They fail to actually teach the authentic faith, and keep people trapped in the kerygma stage for life, and unable to move forward. This is why all the programs, courses, and movements since Vatican II always fall flat on their face. It is because they are built on sand, as the kerygma stage become a maze with no exit door.

            You can not create a saint based on half truths. Being a Christian is hard work, and so many Catholics wish to brush this inconvenient truth under the carpet. Catholicism involves goes through a tribulation which can not be avoided if someone wishes to become a saint.

          • I will list the fruits, but you should see the last comment that I have put at the bottom about working in the supernatural. If you do not work in the supernatural then there will be no fruits that will last. In your last comment above, you once again separate (albeit possibly subconsciously) ‘a disciple’, from ‘a Catholic’. In creating a disciple, you are albeit creating a Christian, but you are not creating an authentic Catholic. You (personally) work for the Catholic Church, not a protestant, non conformist or free Church. You must create Catholic disciples. Nothing about the Catholic faith changed at Vatican II concerning spiritual development. In fact the past was reinforced in this context.. Catholic disciples are called ‘Devout Catholics’, because we have a different culture from all those 40,000 Ecclesial Communities (as Pope Benedict refers to them). You must specifically create pious Catholics. Piety was destroyed at the reformation, as you know. However, the reformers were in serious error, because piety can never be seen as a bad thing, because one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is known as the Gift of Piety (aka the Gift of Reverence). God wants more piety (or He would not created this Gift). Authentic Catholic Disciples are pious – FACT! Are you creating pious Catholics in your kerygma geared work? If not you are placing barriers up to God. Are you creating disciples who use Holy water? Are you creating disciples who have a picture of the Sacred Heart in their home as an evangelising witness? Are you creating disciples who witness to their children by burning blessed candles so as to ward off evil? Are you creating disciples who teach their children the authentic Catholic faith? Are you creating disciples who pray the rosary or pray daily with their children? Are you creating disciples who understand that suffering is part of the spiritual journey. If you do not do these things then you are telling half truths and setting them up to fail? These things must be done to release your Catholics from the kerygma stage, or they will forever remain stuck in the ‘kerygma straitjacket’ unable to grow in spiritual maturity. We do all of these things here, because we do not tell half truths? We create Devout Catholics, because devout Catholics can begin to resist the devil, in a far more effective way than any of their counterparts in the denominations, or in the waterered down/dumbed down parts of the Church… Have you seen Fr. Robert Barrens short video on Dumbed Down Catholicism… Never set up people to fail…

  3. No need to post this up on the comments, but this prayer is POWERFUL and WORKS (it is tried and tested). It must be prayed every day though by as many people as possible.

    Prayers & intercessions for St. Mary’s Catholic Church
    and Parish, Louth.

    Jesus, we pray to you for the favour of God to be given to St. Mary’s, Catholic Church, Louth. We ask you to guide all in this parish to be strong in faith so that Christians and non-Christians in our parish can be delivered from the bonds of the devil though the out pourings of God’s grace that he has freely given us.

    Jesus we pray to you to bring to our church all those who have lapsed, all those entering into a journey of faith, all age groups and nationalities (especially the young), and faithful Catholics to act as strong Catholic role models for the propagation of the faith and evangelisation in our parish.

    Jesus we pray to you that you would guide us all at St. Mary’s to make our church into a beacon of light for evangelisation and that it would become a Christian community that is pleasing to God. We ask that you would make a clear path for all future work and that you would protect this work from all spiritual attack.

    Jesus we pray to you to instil solid faith and spirituality in the lives of every member of our young Catholics this year and for you to draw them closer to Christ. We also ask that you renew true catechesis in every Catholic family home, and to guide our catechists in inspiring the young in their faith journey. We ask that you would bring this to fruition and that this would lead our young people to stay within the Catholic Church and for them to have a personal relationship with you.

    Jesus we pray to you for the physical, mental and spiritual protection of our priest. We also ask that you would open his heart to see your glory anew once again, and that he would be a conduit for all that is pleasing to God.

    Jesus we pray to you for the physical and spiritual protection of our church building, especially in relation to electrical, gas and water courses.

    Jesus we pray to you to reveal that every member of our church has responsibility to proclaim the Good News of the Word of God for the salvation of every person in the secular and Christian community within our parish boundaries. We also ask that you reveal the urgency of this need in light of the encroaching secularisation of our parish and the culture of death that it brings. Also eradicate every vestige of secularism from within the walls of our church.

    Jesus we pray to you to send every member of our parish people to minister to and evangelise.

    Jesus we pray to you to reveal to every person living Christian or secular lifestyles within our parish that salvation is a free gift of God that must be accepted by the individual. We also pray that you reveal to every person that they can reject their salvation and this would result in an eternity in hell.

    Jesus we pray to you to instil upon all our parishioners a new dawn of Bible reading and Bible study. Jesus we pray to you to instil upon our parish a new dawn of Catholic catechesis.

    Jesus we pray that you would reveal to all our parishioners that they can come to have a personal one to one relationship with you, which would increase their faith to allow them to walk in the Word and walk in the Spirit. We ask that you guide all Catholics in our parish to accept the graces necessary for this awakening.

    Jesus we pray to you that you would reveal the true nature of your divinity to every member of our parish.

    Jesus we pray to you and join our prayers with Pope John XXIII when he prayed “Renew your wonders in this our day as by a new Pentecost”. We ask you to intercede for us to the Father that heaven would break through to our church.

    Jesus we pray to you so that you would guide us all to spiritually renew our minds daily so that we do not fall in to sin and that this would lead us to walk in the Word and walk in the Spirit.

    Jesus we pray to you to break down ALL secular and spiritual barriers in the hearts of EVERY person living secular and Christian lifestyles in Louth and the surrounding area. We also ask that when these barriers, which were placed there by the devil, have finally been destroyed that they will see the revealed Gospel truth that Jesus Christ is their Lord and saviour and that their eternity is in Christ. We ask this with urgency.

    Jesus we pray to you to guide us to take our witness into every institution, both public and private, within our parish for the glory of God’s kingdom & Christ’s Holy Catholic Church.

    Jesus we pray to you to deliver every person involved in the new age movement, the occult, and spiritualist churches within our community and in our congregation. We also pray that in doing this you will show them the way to you. We pray that you would heal any damage that this has already done.

    Jesus we pray to you to heal all damage done to our church surrounding all involvement in the negative and damaging evil spirit of liberal Catholicism (and its associated personal interpretation of Catholic catechesis) which has taken parishioners away from true Church teaching and the mystery of faith. We ask that you would banish all traces of liberal Catholicism from St. Mary’s Catholic Church, Louth.

    Jesus we pray to you to move out of harms way all those who are putting barriers up to St. Mary’s being a flourishing Catholic parish which has evangelism and good works at its heart.

    Jesus we also ask that you heal all spiritual damage done by arguments between members of our congregation and towards past priests, and also where a priest may have damaged the faith or spirituality of a parishioner.

    Jesus we pray to you to deliver all members of our parish from the negative spirits of apathy and laziness in relation to evangelisation, corporal works of mercy, almsgiving, Catholic catechesis, Bible reading, all aspects of spirituality and every aspect of our church life.

    Jesus we pray to you to eradicate the disordered actions of greed, envy, and aggressive consumerism which bind the soul and create a barrier to people in our parish coming to know you.

    Jesus we pray to you to deliver all those in our parish from binding and aggressive illnesses which are prevalent in modern society. These include cancers, alzeheimers, ADHD, ADD, all forms of compulsive disorders & addictions, depression, clinical depression, aspergers syndrome, autism, and all anxiety and stress illnesses that bind the mind and soul.

    Jesus we pray to you to halt and bind the accepted secular norms of sex outside of marriage, cohabitation, single parenthood, and absentee fathers where these are actions taken through choice or by the product of sexual promiscuity. We ask you to guide all young adults in our parish to follow God’s natural law and to follow Bible and Catholic teaching in relation to these matters.

    Jesus we pray to you to eradicate the disordered action of the infantilisation of teenagers and young adults within our parish families and that you would guide all parents to bring up their children responsibly, lovingly, and with firm boundaries and correct discipline.

    Jesus we pray to you to eradicate the negative spirit of disrespect of the elderly, in all the families in our parish, and that you would guide all sons and daughters to be weapons against old age for their parents

    Jesus we pray to you to guide and release our parish from the intrinsic evils of abortion, and euthanasia, and where there are serious short comings in end of life care.

    Jesus we pray to you to guide and release our parish from the grip of aggressive secularism or any group that campaigns against any aspect of Christianity. We ask you to heal the damage that this has already done within our community.

    Jesus guide us and help us all to defend the Sacrament of marriage and the pivotal role of families within our parish. Jesus we pray to you to eradicate divorce from our parish.

    Jesus we pray to you to guide our country back to Catholicism and to convert our monarch and future monarchs back to your Catholic Church. We also pray that you will guide those in power to change laws to allow the English Prime Minister to be a practising Catholic.

    Jesus we pray to you to instil spiritual wisdom and the fear of the Lord on the lives of ALL members of our parish.

    Jesus we pray to you to give us all revelation concerning the full deposit of faith that every member of our parish has been given and that head knowledge becomes revelation and conversion of the heart.

    Jesus we pray to you to help us all accept God’s grace, live in faith, and reveal to all of us the true mystery of faith.


    God we give you thanks –

    For our parish priest Fr. John who always gives selfless service to our parish, and throughout his life.

    For David Cummings, John Dean, Sam, Alice, Thomas and Tom our MC and altar servers, who give selfless service every week on the sanctuary.

    For Meg, Sophie, Amanda, Anna Maria & Lesley who give service in Children & Youth catechesis.

    For Robert O’Farrell, Donal & Padraig Staunton and Simon Prendeville who have given much time over the past few years enriching our music liturgy.

    For Sally Shillington who gives many hours service in the running of the presbytery and the garden.

    For Andy and Melanie Tiernan, Anna Maria Vesey, Maria Madison and Liz McHugh who have worked hard in bringing the Catholic Faith, tradition, and community back to St. Mary’s Louth in the past year.

    For our newly renovated church that enables us all to worship and for the excellent work of Paddy Shillington, James & Gabriel Gillick.

    For past and present service given by our parish councils, Eucharistic ministers, altar servers, children’s catechists, priest’s house keepers, readers, gardeners, welcomers, flower arrangers and all those who are involved in the running of our church.

    For the years of selfless service given to our parish by previous priests including Fr. Raymond Mendel and Fr. Paul Lloyd.

    And finally,

    for all that God has given to our parish, particularly over the last year, who without Him we would not even be able to proclaim that

    “Jesus Christ is Lord”.

  4. Hi, I think you asked me for the gifts that have been seen here. I will list them, but I will start off by saying that the greatest gift that you (or should I say God) can give to a parish is to remove the negative spiritual oppression that covers every Church and parishioner. Why is this so? Well, the community feeling that you wish for in your parish can occur instantaneously if the right level of intercession and fasting is offered up.The first thing that happens once the negative spiritual oppression is lifted from (forinstance, a community event in a parish), is that demonic activity ceases within both the building and individuals, and because human beings are social animals they literally miraculously start talking to each other in a more unrestrained way than previously. I have seen this happen quite a number of times now, and I am always amazed at God when it happens. Everything all of a sudden changes and a whole room comes to life (You have probably seen this happen at various events, but it can also happen at Church level if you are working at a supernatural level). This gives an opportunity (if you so wish) for people to start talking about their faith. However, even if they do not talk about their faith, they understand that something is different and the community has become more like we imagine that the early Church was like. However, for this to happen the intercession required initially should be seen more as ‘taking a sledgehammer’ to the problem, rather than the usual intercession at Mass, or weak prayers. Ultimately fasting is the one thing that ultimately shifts negative spiritual oppression in a Church. Operating at a supernatural level is required to get results. Although I am not talking in ‘Catholic speak’, there are two things which need to be considered. Firstly, there are intercessors in prayer, and then there are intercessors ‘on the ground’ who go in and kick the doors down. The problem is that someone normally has to do both the intercession in prayer and the work on the ground, and then they become spiritually burnt out and fatigued (don’t fall in to this trap). What needs to happen is that you have a (real) intercessory team throwing the bombs in, and then the group on the ground do the work, knowing that the intercession and fasting has been done. Once this happens the parishioners, who want to be closer to Christ, will start becoming closer to Christ, if the momentum is maintained. However, like I said, ‘make hay while the sun shines’, as virtually every movement comes to an end. We have proved that this work can be achieved without stripping away any of the Traditional Catholic faith. In fact, (although we organised a number of different events (litergical, spiritual, pastoral), I want to make a point that ‘the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Spirit were prayed for at a Traditional Latin Mass (you know that ‘dead thing’ that people complain about). The Deacon ended up praying in tongues on the Sanctuary, and two people afterwards started shaking in the Spirit. Others acted in a way that you may see at a charismatic event, and hearts were melted). I specifically did this to prove that the charismatics and other movements were in ‘serious error’ when they ‘threw the baby out with the bath water’, when they stripped the altars and stripped the faith, and moved people away from who Christ really is and left them in the ‘Kerygma straitjacket’. They were supposed to not act like protestants, but were supposed to go into the Church with their Gifts, and not wind people up. They were supposed to bring the Gifts of the Holy Spirit to a normal Church setting, as Vatican II intended. But they made the secular mistake of going “me, me, me, I want, I want, I want, and now even CCR admit that they are ‘dying out across Europe’. Did you know that EWTN have now banned Joel’s Bar, and One Hope Project from using the EWTN logo, as they have deemed them ‘not Catholic’. Serious mistakes have been made, and this is why you have difficulty in building up parishes. Honour God, and keep it Catholic! (like Mother Angelica of EWTN), and all manner of miracles will occur (far more than seen since Vatican II. I will give you a final list of the fruits later, but I have tried to put the cart before the hors, by imparting this information first.

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